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Unread 12-23-2009, 11:38 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00fy View Post
As mentioned many times in other posts this is not a betamax issue its defenitely a problem with voxalot who is not able to pass the real ip of the customer to betamax. Please stop to abuse this forum with problems not related to betamax.

So, I am very interested in what he will say to you... And if this will ever really be solved...
Voxalot is definitely passing on the IP address of the call originator to the Betamax servers. The mechanism used was designed and implemented by both Voxalot and Betamax engineers over 2 years ago so I am surprised to read the above statement.

I have PMed hudai.terzioglu on the VoIPBuster forum and described the IP address mechanism I mentioned and waiting for his reply.
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Unread 12-25-2009, 04:03 PM   #72
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with my little knowledge about voip, as i posted in another thread voxalot-support/4578-betamax-fup-again-2.html i have a spa3102 registered to voxalot, when i tried to make the call through voxalot with the betamax account added as a VSP in my voxalot account, they charged me for FUP

but when i make the call directly from the ATA using the gateways in spa3102 or by adding the betamax account directly in the dial plan, i had no FUP charges. so the conclusion for me is that voxalot was the problem.

Last edited by mohnashaat; 12-25-2009 at 04:05 PM.
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Unread 12-25-2009, 05:00 PM   #73
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No, Voxalot is not the problem. What Martin is telling us is that Voxalot bypass user's IP to Betamax providers in a way that Betamax should not only be aware, but that they contributed to the implementation of the process. Several things may be happening here, but I doubt Voxalot can do a dime to overcome this issue. Never forgetting thay may not be in the Betamax best interest that their costumer uses Voxalot as a SIP user agent (because in this way their customer can very easily chose, in a call per basis, to route their call through another competitor VSP), there are several other possible causes:
  1. They simply don't care. Their business model doesn't seam to be very worried about customers as far as they can make more money. This also explain how they can offer such low prices for their services.
  2. There was a change in their servers that changed the way in which calls triggers FUP. But no one cares as far as they can make more money with this business model.
I never used, and never intended to use, Betamax services. There are another alternatives. Personally I don't believe in such thing as a free lunch and is difficult for me to understand how people believe in such marketing strategies when all of us know that they are in the business to make money. So I prefer more honest offers despite they might seam, at a glance, more expensive. But when we see things like this (FUP), at least I understand that not always the cheapest is the cheaper.

Last edited by carlosalbffgomes; 12-25-2009 at 05:05 PM.
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Unread 12-25-2009, 07:27 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosalbffgomes View Post
No, Voxalot is not the problem. What Martin is telling us is that Voxalot bypass user's IP to Betamax providers in a way that Betamax should not only be aware, but that they contributed to the implementation of the process. Several things may be happening here, but I doubt Voxalot can do a dime to overcome this issue. Never forgetting thay may not be in the Betamax best interest that their costumer uses Voxalot as a SIP user agent (because in this way their customer can very easily chose, in a call per basis, to route their call through another competitor VSP), there are several other possible causes:
  1. They simply don't care. Their business model doesn't seam to be very worried about customers as far as they can make more money. This also explain how they can offer such low prices for their services.
  2. There was a change in their servers that changed the way in which calls triggers FUP. But no one cares as far as they can make more money with this business model.
I never used, and never intended to use, Betamax services. There are another alternatives. Personally I don't believe in such thing as a free lunch and is difficult for me to understand how people believe in such marketing strategies when all of us know that they are in the business to make money. So I prefer more honest offers despite they might seam, at a glance, more expensive. But when we see things like this (FUP), at least I understand that not always the cheapest is the cheaper.
i understand your reasoning, but how do you explain my experience, when used via voxalot, charged for FUP. and without voxalot no FUP
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Unread 12-25-2009, 08:57 PM   #75
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That's easy. When you call through Voxalot, Betamax knows that your call is bypassing through Voxalot, despite Voxalot in sending your IP address in SIP headers. That happens because the IP from which comes the first SIP invite message is from Voxalot servers. So, Betamax has two diferent IP address: yours (on SIP headers) and one from Voxalot's server (on IP headers). Differently, when you call directly from your computer or ATA, Betamax has only one IP address (in fact, they have both but they are the same).
So, what maybe happens is that Betamax no more honours the IP address sent in SIP headers from Voxalot servers to them. And Voxalot can not modify their IP address on IP headers because that is something that depends directly on the internet infrastructure and IP protocol. Also, don't forget that Voxalot servers are not at Voxalot facilities but they are rent from data centres in Holland, United States, and Australia. That means: the only way to overcome this FUP issue is if Betamax servers honour the IP sent to them in the SIP header and not the IP from which the first SIP invite message is coming from. Voxalot can not modify something that deals with internet infrastructure and in equipment rent on data centres around the world. It's easier to implement some kind of other solution at the users side, as suggested some where else in this forum.
Regards,

Last edited by carlosalbffgomes; 12-25-2009 at 09:03 PM.
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Unread 01-26-2010, 10:12 AM   #76
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Default BETAMAX "(FUP exceeded)"

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosalbffgomes View Post
That's easy. When you call through Voxalot, Betamax knows that your call is bypassing through Voxalot, despite Voxalot in sending your IP address in SIP headers. That happens because the IP from which comes the first SIP invite message is from Voxalot servers. So, Betamax has two diferent IP address: yours (on SIP headers) and one from Voxalot's server (on IP headers). Differently, when you call directly from your computer or ATA, Betamax has only one IP address (in fact, they have both but they are the same).
So, what maybe happens is that Betamax no more honours the IP address sent in SIP headers from Voxalot servers to them. And Voxalot can not modify their IP address on IP headers because that is something that depends directly on the internet infrastructure and IP protocol. Also, don't forget that Voxalot servers are not at Voxalot facilities but they are rent from data centres in Holland, United States, and Australia. That means: the only way to overcome this FUP issue is if Betamax servers honour the IP sent to them in the SIP header and not the IP from which the first SIP invite message is coming from. Voxalot can not modify something that deals with internet infrastructure and in equipment rent on data centres around the world. It's easier to implement some kind of other solution at the users side, as suggested some where else in this forum.
Regards,
Hi carlosalbffgomes, appreciate your explanations so far on this issue.
it all make sense to me, but can you please point a "possible" solution at the client side to this problem?
Thanks in advance
OlaDAVIES
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Unread 01-27-2010, 08:44 PM   #77
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Main solutions to FUP on Betamax accounts at user side:

1 - With a soft phone: there are some soft phones that handle more than one line. Some of these are Twinkle (Twinkle - SIP softphone for Linux) and Zoiper (Free Zoiper softphone for windows, mac & linux, webphone and SDK). These are general purpose soft phones which handle two or more SIP accounts.

2 - Some hardware phones are also capable of registering with two or more SIP accounts as for example Linksys SPA 941.

3 - Another suggested solution works with a dial plan on the hardware phone but you must have the same credentials at Voxalot and Betamax accounts (user and password must be the same at both accounts). Then, on the phone dial plan configuration, you add a rule as the following one: '<#,:>xx.<:@sip.voipbuster.com>'. Then, when you which to dial through VoipBuster, you start dialling the '#' key (you will listen to a different dial tone) and then dial your number in international format, ending with the '#' key again. The call will be routed through VoipBuster despite you are using an hardware phone capable of one SIP registration only (and no one SIP gateway). In these example, if you also which to receive VoipBuster calls, you must register your SIP phone with VoipBuster and forward your Voxalot account (the above rule on your dial plan should also be modified, ending with '<:@us.voxalot.com>' instead of '<:@sip.voipbuster.com>'), through SIP, directly to your phone on a similar manner explained on the SIP Broker FAQs (forwarding direct calls to your SIP phone). Another way is to forward your VoipBuster account to Voxalot using your Voxalot iNum number and leaving your SIP phone registered with Voxalot.

Regards,

Last edited by carlosalbffgomes; 01-27-2010 at 08:57 PM.
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Unread 01-27-2010, 09:01 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosalbffgomes View Post

3 - Another suggested solution works with a dial plan on the hardware phone but you must have the same credentials at Voxalot and Betamax accounts (user and password must be the same at both accounts). Then, on the phone dial plan configuration, you add a rule as the following one: '<#,:>xx.<:@sip.voipbuster.com>'. Then, when you which to dial through VoipBuster, you start dialling the '#' key (you will listen to a different dial tone) and then dial your number in international format, ending with the '#' key again. The call will be routed through VoipBuster despite you are using an hardware phone capable of one SIP registration only (and no one SIP gateway). In these example, if you also which to receive VoipBuster calls, you must register your SIP phone with VoipBuster and forward your Voxalot account (the above rule on your dial plan should also be modified, ending with '<:@us.voxalot.com>' instead of '<:@sip.voipbuster.com>'), through SIP, directly to your phone on a similar manner explained on the SIP Broker FAQs (forwarding direct calls to your SIP phone). Another way is to forward your VoipBuster account to Voxalot using your Voxalot iNum number and leaving your SIP phone registered with Voxalot.

Regards,
i think you can do it without having voxalot and voipbuster with the same credentials, you can add the userID and password in the dial plan

(00xx.<:@sip.voipbuster.com;usr=name;pwd=password> ) this will forward all calls starting by 00 through yourvoipbuster provider directly
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Unread 01-28-2010, 04:54 PM   #79
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These are nice solutions but one thing that you can do with Voxalot and not with the ATA is to set the "From User" field (unless you have any clever ideas!)

I use this so that I can set my outgoing CID on a call-by-call basis for each Betamax-verified number in my account.
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Unread 02-07-2010, 01:15 AM   #80
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Is it just me or FUP started again on US server? I use 2 Betamax clones and I get FUP on both of them (I barely used one so that should be FUP free); I need Betamax to forward DIDs to regular phones so I can’t escape the FUP issue by using an ATA .

Last edited by Corbu'; 02-07-2010 at 01:18 AM.
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