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Unread 01-03-2007, 09:14 AM   #21
lulucachoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
You already can call whomever you want

But like that you'd still pay the outgoing cost to the callthrough number. Or do you mean the DID is a callback trigger, in which case it doesn't matter where it is? Everyone so far seems to talking of it as a callthrough bridge

Callthrough would come into reckoning if you have a lower tariff for an outgoing local call than the incoming cost of callback to the phone you're on.

If it's a landline then that's less likely, and quite often callback is cheaper for mobiles too, and this escape from dependence on local operators' tariffs is probably why callback was invented in the first place.
Callback isn't always ideal, to a hotel or payphone for instance, and I make most of my calls from these places when abroad, and assume that lots of other people do as well.

It's great to have the callback feature but it means setting up the call with an internet browser, which isn't always available/ideal abroad.
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Unread 01-03-2007, 11:31 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by lulucachoo View Post
Callback isn't always ideal, to a hotel or payphone for instance, and I make most of my calls from these places when abroad, and assume that lots of other people do as well.

It's great to have the callback feature but it means setting up the call with an internet browser, which isn't always available/ideal abroad.
In those circumstances, a calling card with freephone access is one choice, but can be higher tariff or barred. And even a local call is chargeable at high tariffs from most hotels

So actually, if you can find out the incoming number of your hotel room, callback can be the cheapest of all, like maybe even free depending on your VoIP tariff. And if a payphone accepts incoming calls ...

Setting up from a web browser is one method, but there are several others - like calling a trigger number, either dedicated per number on the account or a portal that recognises caller ID, or sms or wap/gprs from a mobile. And not necessarily back to the same phone in any of these cases, so a mobile can be used to set up callback to a landline.

I'm not against this extra facility being thought about, but I still think some people aren't reckoning the cost of the access call.

The Voxalot web-based callback allows any numbers via your listed providers, whereas the mobile version uses only routes preset in the phonebook listing. So as you say, your choice is restricted from your hotel, which is why I hope a method can be added for ad hoc numbers from the mobile callback ...

If anyone doesn't have data facilities when roaming on their mobile, then think about getting another SIM in a spare phone; the amount of data used is modest, and for extra motivation there are also Java clients for cheap sms from 2 or 3 cents each

Last edited by andy; 01-03-2007 at 02:26 PM.
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Unread 01-03-2007, 07:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
In those circumstances, a calling card with freephone access is one choice, but can be higher tariff or barred. And even a local call is chargeable at high tariffs from most hotels

So actually, if you can find out the incoming number of your hotel room, callback can be the cheapest of all, like maybe even free depending on your VoIP tariff. And if a payphone accepts incoming calls ...

Setting up from a web browser is one method, but there are several others - like calling a trigger number, either dedicated per number on the account or a portal that recognises caller ID, or sms or wap/gprs from a mobile. And not necessarily back to the same phone in any of these cases, so a mobile can be used to set up callback to a landline.

I'm not against this extra facility being thought about, but I still think some people aren't reckoning the cost of the access call.

The Voxalot web-based callback allows any numbers via your listed providers, whereas the mobile version uses only routes preset in the phonebook listing. So as you say, your choice is restricted from your hotel, which is why I hope a method can be added for ad hoc numbers from the mobile callback ...

If anyone doesn't have data facilities when roaming on their mobile, then think about getting another SIM in a spare phone; the amount of data used is modest, and for extra motivation there are also Java clients for cheap sms from 2 or 3 cents each
way to complicated.... people want simple. simple=DID
I don't want to buy another sim card or set up call backs etc... I (the proverbial I meaning we) just want something as simple as dialing a number to use our SIP rates from ANY phone. I'll not saying lose the web callback feature because it has it's functions. I'm just saying introducing this would facilitate mobile calls to anywhere, anytime, anyplace...

p.s. how do you suppose a callback to a hotel room ext. would work??? At best, if the hotel doesn't have a auto attendant answering calls, MAYBE you'll get lucky enough to have the front desk answer which would just hang the call up anyway...
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Unread 01-03-2007, 10:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by sunray73 View Post
way to complicated.... people want simple. simple=DID
I don't want to buy another sim card or set up call backs etc... I (the proverbial I meaning we) just want something as simple as dialing a number to use our SIP rates from ANY phone. I'll not saying lose the web callback feature because it has it's functions. I'm just saying introducing this would facilitate mobile calls to anywhere, anytime, anyplace...
I'm sorry if this will sound argumentative, but what you are suggesting is also complicated. You've said you're going to call this DID number and access your SIP rates, perhaps via a choice of providers you've registered with Voxalot ...

But there are parts of this that you still refuse to explain. Most of all, how much are you going to pay to call this access number? - it certainly is not free

Let's say you're in a hotel that tells you outgoing calls cost 25 cents a minute - what call do you make to where that means you make the best use of your VoIP rate of 2 cents a minute? I say either use callback that costs you 4 cents a minute, or a calling card that costs maybe 10c, but I don't see how you can get below 27c aggregate cost.

From a mobile, if you don't want to use a different SIM when abroad, then with a couple of exceptions like Vodafone Passport you're either restricting yourself to roaming tariffs or accepting that you won't use it at all.

You can't magically call a local number and get your VoIP tariff to anywhere from anywhere - well you can but this access call when roaming might cost you €1 or more per minute

If someone asked for advice when visiting Europe, I'd say get a local SIM if visiting only one country, or one of several global ones with free roaming in many countries. It depends on the balance of outgoing and incoming call charges. In some countries there are mvno SIMs with pretty cheap direct-dialled int'l calls; in others you'd use callthrough via a freephone or local number while for some you'd be best off using callback.

But if it's all too complicated to go into getting another SIM, then you are losing the chance to make mobile calls for 10 or 20 cents per minute, even less in some cases (2c or 8c is cheapest), and no local DID can help you unless you have cheap roaming (but if you do have Vodafone Passport, you might as well call home as the local number - same price)

Quote:
p.s. how do you suppose a callback to a hotel room ext. would work??? At best, if the hotel doesn't have a auto attendant answering calls, MAYBE you'll get lucky enough to have the front desk answer which would just hang the call up anyway...
Chat up the receptionist in a quiet moment and say your family want to call you, and it will save them bother if they can tell you the direct incoming number. I and plenty of friends have done it, usually for that reason. Not everywhere has a phone number for each room, but most do (if there is a phone!). And then callback is possible at VoIP tariffs ...

I feel like I've said too much on the subject and become boring, even to myself. Carry on lobbying for this callthrough arrangement if you wish, but I doubt it will be as useful as you hope
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Unread 01-14-2007, 12:17 AM   #25
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Default Accessing your Voxalot account via PSTN

I think this is useful and feasible; especially with a service like sip broker that offers a lot of access numbers in a lot of countries. The goal would be to access your voxalot account via a local sipbroker access number (where one exists) and make outgoing calls using your existing voxalot dial plan/providers.

True it seems like a lot of steps but when you are out of the country it a lot less hassle and way cheaper than paying the local international rates

For someone visiting a country with a sipbroker access number, dialing the sipbroker access number would be a local call. All I would need before travelling is to determine if a sipbroker access number exists in the country I am visiting and I'm all set for my trip.

I really think it should be considered for implementation
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Unread 01-15-2007, 03:01 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 244751 View Post
For someone visiting a country with a sipbroker access number, dialing the sipbroker access number would be a local call. All I would need before travelling is to determine if a sipbroker access number exists in the country I am visiting and I'm all set for my trip.
Not necessarily.

Some discussion above was about not messing about with a local SIM card, but if you are hoping to use your mobile with its home SIM, you'd be charged at roaming rates for the access call.
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Unread 01-19-2007, 10:33 PM   #27
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I hate being a tease but look out for a new feature called "VoXRoam" in the not so distant future

Also early next week we release the first part of a series of feature updates including things like web callback via dial plan, better voicemail control features + NAT handling options to name a few.
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Unread 01-19-2007, 10:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
I'm sorry if this will sound argumentative, but what you are suggesting is also complicated. You've said you're going to call this DID number and access your SIP rates, perhaps via a choice of providers you've registered with Voxalot ...

But there are parts of this that you still refuse to explain. Most of all, how much are you going to pay to call this access number? - it certainly is not free
Actually, if you have a good cell plan it pretty much is free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
Let's say you're in a hotel that tells you outgoing calls cost 25 cents a minute - what call do you make to where that means you make the best use of your VoIP rate of 2 cents a minute? I say either use callback that costs you 4 cents a minute, or a calling card that costs maybe 10c, but I don't see how you can get below 27c aggregate cost.
Most *not all* hotels use Auto Attendants which means you can cross this off your list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
From a mobile, if you don't want to use a different SIM when abroad, then with a couple of exceptions like Vodafone Passport you're either restricting yourself to roaming tariffs or accepting that you won't use it at all.
their are tons of free sip inbound providers out there for different countries. Just register a bunch. (i.e. speed dial 1=USA, speed dial 2=Italy etc...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
You can't magically call a local number and get your VoIP tariff to anywhere from anywhere - well you can but this access call when roaming might cost you €1 or more per minute
you can't avoid "roaming charges" if you are outside of your calling area with a cell phone. Who get's roaming charges anyways? I haven't had roaming charges in years in the USA... I'm assuming you mean when abroad which again you can avoid if you pick the right cellphone company to use.


Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
If someone asked for advice when visiting Europe, I'd say get a local SIM if visiting only one country, or one of several global ones with free roaming in many countries. It depends on the balance of outgoing and incoming call charges. In some countries there are mvno SIMs with pretty cheap direct-dialled int'l calls; in others you'd use callthrough via a freephone or local number while for some you'd be best off using callback.
somewhat agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
But if it's all too complicated to go into getting another SIM, then you are losing the chance to make mobile calls for 10 or 20 cents per minute, even less in some cases (2c or 8c is cheapest), and no local DID can help you unless you have cheap roaming (but if you do have Vodafone Passport, you might as well call home as the local number - same price)

Chat up the receptionist in a quiet moment and say your family want to call you, and it will save them bother if they can tell you the direct incoming number. I and plenty of friends have done it, usually for that reason. Not everywhere has a phone number for each room, but most do (if there is a phone!). And then callback is possible at VoIP tariffs ...
Again, will not work for most hotels. Let's take the whole traveling to a different country scenario out for a sec. When I'm on the road here in the US I have my cell phone with me and I want to make a call to a different country. I don't want find a hotspot, configure my call back etc... I want to pick up my cell phone, hit my speed dial to a sip number I configured (i.e. stanaphone) and dial out using my voipstunt sip rates. I've been installing PBX systems for some time now including legacy Merlin systems, Nortel, Asterisk and TrixBox so I do know it is possible. Point is most folks want something easy to program on their cell phone to connect to their sip without much fuss. By taking the extra steps, we might as well buy a sipura3000 which has this feature but I think a 'device free' scenario would be such a HUGE benefit(less chance of it going down).
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Unread 01-19-2007, 10:59 PM   #29
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Great News Martin!!! Can't wait!!!
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Unread 01-20-2007, 01:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by sunray73 View Post
you can't avoid "roaming charges" if you are outside of your calling area with a cell phone. Who get's roaming charges anyways? I haven't had roaming charges in years in the USA... I'm assuming you mean when abroad which again you can avoid if you pick the right cellphone company to use.
...
Again, will not work for most hotels. Let's take the whole traveling to a different country scenario out for a sec. When I'm on the road here in the US I have my cell phone with me and I want to make a call to a different country. I don't want find a hotspot, configure my call back etc... I want to pick up my cell phone, hit my speed dial to a sip number I configured (i.e. stanaphone) and dial out using my voipstunt sip rates.
Well I must have been badly mistaken, as I thought at least three-quarters of the discussion so far, including much of what you introduced, had been about using the phone abroad, not in another part of the USA, so this seems to me like a change of tack. I'm sure you mentioned access DIDs in other countries.

Callback would indeed be less worthwhile in USA, and I think it rather odd to suggest that's what I was on about, especially as I said you can already do the callthrough you want with some providers, fairly similar to calling card methods.

US networks have some of the world's highest roaming charges, both for visitors to the country and for their customers travelling elsewhere. Not one of them has free incoming calls anywhere else, or cheap outgoing calls from inclusive packages, so I think you are fantasising about picking the right plan from the right company, or perhaps you haven't actually been abroad with your US mobile.

There are only very few such options, though they are increasing like the announcement by 3 UK a few days ago, or between 3 Denmark and Sweden for a while. O2 UK has free incoming in Spain for a £5 a month fee. T-mobile Czech has free (temporary) roaming on several T-mobile networks, and other T-mobiles could roam free in Germany at the football World Cup last year. Some networks in the Baltic states eg Tele2 possibly Bite have free roaming between the countries

So I'm sorry if it will sound contentious, but if you can produce any evidence whatsoever of avoiding roaming costs abroad that you keep mentioning, then please publish it.

There are SIM cards with cheap roaming, but almost all of these depend on their own callback systems, not direct-dialled outgoing calls. Their own tariffs, while better than the main companies, can be dramatically undercut by using other callback systems from a range of providers, and this is where Voxalot comes in, using one or two of your favourite VoIP companies

And I still say it is very easy to use a simple Java client in the mobile, and not that difficult with or a couple of bookmarked wap pages or URLs instead to connect two landlines together, using a little as 1 or 2k of data, and call tariffs that start from zero. And there are other callback trigger methods too, if you don't have data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin
I hate being a tease but look out for a new feature called "VoXRoam" in the not so distant future
I look forward to it - will it be a feature of Voxalot itself, or another product that can be used with it?

As I almost hinted, I think a Voxalot Java client in the mobile would be a great idea, or if not then at least more facility to dial any number not pre-listed in the phonebook. As I've only used the mobile callback, I haven't studied dial plans enough yet, but will this facility extend to mobile use?

Last edited by andy; 01-20-2007 at 02:40 AM.
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