Voxalot / SIP Broker Support Forums

Voxalot / SIP Broker Support Forums (http://forum.sipbroker.com/index.php)
-   VoIP News (http://forum.sipbroker.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   UK users - Petition for Naked DSL in UK (http://forum.sipbroker.com/showthread.php?t=1688)

tomblandford 06-11-2007 03:47 PM

UK users - Petition for Naked DSL in UK
 
Petition to: Force Telecoms companies to offer broadband only line rental (naked DSL).
.
.

andy 06-11-2007 08:14 PM

I'm not sure if this belongs on here, but I'd better let one of the others decide

By the way, there is a similar petition, with a few more signatures than this.

I don't see how people can have broadband without a phone line, and therefore paying BT for it. Some of the proponents of this idea seem to gloss over that.

Some of them have also claimed that such products exist in USA and Australia. I read replies on one forum that this was untrue for USA; that AT&T are canvassing market opinion, and in any case the monthly fee will be $20 or more. Perhaps some comments about Australia will be added here

Juste 06-11-2007 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy (Post 9418)
I'm not sure if this belongs on here, but I'd better let one of the others decide

By the way, there is a similar petition, with a few more signatures than this.

I don't see how people can have broadband without a phone line, and therefore paying BT for it. Some of the proponents of this idea seem to gloss over that.

Some of them have also claimed that such products exist in USA and Australia. I read replies on one forum that this was untrue for USA; that AT&T are canvassing market opinion, and in any case the monthly fee will be $20 or more. Perhaps some comments about Australia will be added here

It works very well for me. And I do not pay anything extra for having this freedom. My internet provider does not really advertise that, but they have no choice.

DracoFelis 06-12-2007 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy (Post 9418)
I don't see how people can have broadband without a phone line, and therefore paying BT for it. Some of the proponents of this idea seem to gloss over that.

DSL does require a "phone line", in that you need the physical wire from the phone company. But it's only marketing/rules of the phone company that says you also need "telephone service" on that wire. From a technical standpoint, it's quite possible to have DSL on a "phone line" that doesn't also have "phone service" enabled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy (Post 9418)
Some of them have also claimed that such products exist in USA and Australia. I read replies on one forum that this was untrue for USA

Yes and no. It really depends upon the provider. Some telcos (and especially some 3rd party DSL providers, that rent the "phone lines" from the telcos) will sell "Naked DSL" and some don't offer that option. My telco doesn't offer that option, but that doesn't mean that some don't.

NOTE: Most (USA) providers that offer "Naked DSL" do charge a little more for their "Naked DSL" offerings than they do for DSL riding with a telco/phone line (because they don't have the phone service subsidizing the costs of the wire). So some people have found that it's sometimes cheaper to get regular DSL with a minimal phone plan (and just not use the phone), vs paying extra for "Naked DSL". However, in most cases the costs of DSL+phone are still more expensive than the surcharge for "Naked DSL" (without any phone). And so if you really don't want/need the "phone", "Naked DSL" (if offered in your area) can sometimes be a good idea.

ctylor 06-12-2007 02:59 AM

Hence one reason to go with cable modem internet providers when using SIP as a phone replacement, so as to avoid buying a redudant phone line when getting your ADSL connection or the inflated surcharge given if you want naked DSL that inexplicably costs as much as what a plain phone line costs.

andy 06-12-2007 01:09 PM

I understand the above comments

I think that proponents of the idea here want to compare British Telecom provision of a physical phoneline with cable suppliers' connections, but the latter includes probably a package of TV channels and broadband and maybe telephone for aggregate figures between maybe 20 and 35 a month [don't bother correcting me - no research].

Compared to revenue at that level, and notional cross-subsidies that are probably built in by the TV part being overpriced, we are being told that 5 a month might be possible on a simple phoneline with DSL only, but this is well below what the wholesale cost is claimed to be.

There needs to be some review of the way that the accountants allocate all the costs for it to be able to happen. Going back a few years, a friend who used to work in BT development told me the engineers had a lot of difficulty convincing the management that there was a business case for broadband at all, as they were paranoid about losing pstn revenues.

Tony 06-13-2007 04:28 AM

Engin to launch fast broadband without fixed-line fees
 
http://forum.voxalot.com/voip-news/1...ed-dsl-uk.html


Looks like Engin in Australia is going to lead the charge in offering broadband band services with out fixed line fees.

Tony.

affinity 06-13-2007 08:10 AM

Why Engin? They are not even sipbroker friendly. They are the Telstra of VoIP IMHO.

Any Internet product that doesn't involve a land line has oodles of VoIP providers that can offer services at better value than Engin.

236267 06-13-2007 08:14 AM

Naked DSL
 
Goodness knows where the expression came from, however it is there now.......

Anyway, the point is that you simply need the pair of copper wires without telephone service . This is usually called a "dry pair" and has no 48/50volts
applied. This used to be called "energising voltage" in the old days, but is still
present on all PSTN sysyems. The dry pair was never widely advertised since it was only used for specialised purposes - things like alarm systems or other remote operations. In some countries an ISP can order a dry pair from the telco and provide DSL over it to a customer.....no telephone service, so no voltage.
I know that this is available from Bell in Canada.
Presumably someone from BT or Ofcom would know whether it is available to providers in the UK.

Hope this helps,

Mike.

236267 06-13-2007 08:41 AM

Dark fibre
 
It's Mike again....just realised I could have mentioned the parallel situation in the optical-cable world where you can buy or lease a "dark fibre" which is simply a point-to-point optical connection with no terminating equipment.
The buyer provides his own end-terminal which "lights" the cable and these days would be MWDM kit enabling multiple data streams down the one pair of fibres.

Cheers,

Mike.

technoboy 06-14-2007 09:48 PM

Tiscali UK are now offering 'free line rental', with their broadband, where they have local loop unbundling (LLU). There are 2 price bands. GBP15/month for a 2Mb/s, unlimited download, connection with free weekend calls or GBP20/month for up to 8Mb/s, unlimited, connection with all geo. UK calls included. They did have an GBP18/month option too but they seem to have dropped that one.
Tiscali UK. Information, entertainment, broadband, email and internet access.
So, with LLU you can offer something similar to that of cable.
VirginMedia cable charge GBP18/month for a 2Mb/s connection with no phone line (though they do offers - sometimes at GBP10/month for the same thing).
Virgin Media - digital TV, broadband, phone and mobile
As I see it, he only reason we have had real success with LLU, in the UK, is because BT was forced to split, by the regulator, and thus create OpenReach. This was because, like Telstra in Australia, they were, stifling competition. With OpenReach that all changed and things run smoother now. I reckon if the Australian regulator did the same with Telstra then Australians would reap similar benefits.

ygeffens 06-15-2007 04:29 PM

Raw copper
 
Here in Belgium we have something similar.
It's called raw copper.
ADSL without a fixed telephone line?

There IS 48volt on the wire (at least here in Belgium), but there is no dialtone when you connect a telephone to it.

The thing is, the raw copper pair is more expensive (11.8 euro's) than requesting a cheap phone line (to be called on, not to place calls from) from the national telco (Belgacom). They only charge 7 euro's for that.

Christian 06-19-2007 03:02 PM

It seems to be quite comparable all around the world. The Dutch situation is similar: if you don't want a phone hookup, you have to pay a fee for the bare line, which is comparable to the fee for a basic phone line.

Some providers (not all) are waving that fee, basically offering that as an extra discount (the fee for the line is still paid by the provider). Examples of these are the KPN and its daughters (only offering this as "internetplusbellen" - you need to get a castrated VOIP-account through them as well) and XS4ALL (offering this as "XS4ALL only").

JeFFJuH 10-26-2007 05:59 PM

Here in the Netherlands the KPN (company that owns the copper lines) charge you about 10/month when you want a 'raw copper' line.

kieranmullen 10-28-2007 07:27 AM

Why not also protest these ridiculous things
1)Per minute charges for incoming or outgoing calls?
2)Per minute charges for local calls?
3)A license for a tv and radio?

Rubbish!

Soruk 01-09-2014 05:09 PM

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but something useful to UK VoIP users who would rather not be paying for the POTS line - Primus have slashed their cheapest line rental offering to 5.99/month - it's called Line Rental Saver and only available through Broadband Choices.

http://www.broadbandchoices.co.uk/of...s/primus-phone

I don't work for them - just a happy customer.

maxanthony1976 06-21-2017 03:19 AM

Poor England. I do not pay anything for this.


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.